top 10 book of mormon evidences

But what exactly is your theory there? The Book of Mormon is another Testament of Jesus Christ. BYU scholars Pike and Seely summarize: We are thus not presently aware of any solution that satisfactorily accounts for all the questions regarding 2 Nephi 12:16 in its relation to the preserved text of Isaiah 2:16, some Latter-day Saints blithely cite 2 Nephi 12:16 as a tangible vindication of Joseph Smith’s prophetic call without sufficient consideration of the complexities involved in dealing with the ancient Hebrew and Greek versions of this verse. It is short, and with the exception of some "new" things that the author has discovered, he spends a relatively short time on many of the evidences. The real meat in this discussion is the evidence in this video. Book of Mormon Evidences in Ancient America ... Top reviews from the United States There was a problem filtering reviews right now. One point 1: Accurate Arabian Geography, it's pretty ridiculous to take a route that loosely matches the description given in the Book of Mormon and suggest that it is evidence of it. I was an LDS apologist for 20 years (and former BYU professor). Home Blog Some Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon. Updated response to “Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences” by Jamie Huston; Originally discussed at mormonscholar here. This is a very good point. Introduction. Gently Hew Stone raised some good points in response: Thank you for the compliments and the thoughtful comment. Without any context given to him and presented with a full Likert scale to rate accuracy, the regius chair of the Hebrew Bible at Oxford rates 6 of these verses (that happen to have been preserved in the BoM) "completely innaccurate". Agreed. Furthermore, Joseph Smith Jr. did not do his work in isolation, and had plenty of contact with Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Smith Sr., Alvin Smith, and Hyrum Smith (and likely others) throughout the whole process, and had they done any notes, outlines, etc by the time they knew what they were going to do with the book, there was no way they were going to keep them around, if they ever had any of them to begin with. The student graduated from high school and enrolled at Utah State University in Logan. In general, the best way to compare competing models (so, the historical vs. the modern origin models) is using something like bayes factors. This was a laughable thought during Joseph Smith’s time. 640-44 we quote, “We have laying before us, a neat little work of 256 pages, 32 mo. [FWIW, I think the data against chiasmus and Moroni's Promise are my strongest points in general.]. Oct 10, 2017 - This Pin was discovered by Christi Williams. Believing in claims that are weakly supported or for which better models exist is going to lead to disappointment more often than not. What's more, trade routes like this were not all that uncommon, and logic would tell us that humans traveling far distances would choose routes that are going to lead to resources to survive. The Book of Mormon reflects these same poetic structures from beginning to end and uses them in a distinctly Hebrew manner. What is not taken into account is that, in this same area, there is no evidence of the technology or events outlined in the Book of Mormon. What a MoCrits terms an “error” doesn’t jive with what most biblical scholars agree is an “error.”. The Book of Mormon. Midway through his freshman year at college, he announced to his parents that he was leaving the Church because "there is no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon." Most trade routes would be lush and have fruit somewhere along the path. Let’s start out with the allegory of the olive tree—the prophet Zenos’s extraordinary parable of the Lord’s four visits to his vineyard—the world. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. I have studied most of these arguments in great depth in the past. 2. Top 10 Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon 1. Chiasmus. Some of the points made in the video, I think, count as legitimate evidence in favor of the historical model (even though they are not conclusive evidence). Even Richard Bushman has acknowledged: … there is phrasing everywhere–long phrases that if you google them you will find them in 19th century writings. Is there anything other than it's a trade route that was similar to the route taken in the Book of Mormon? Book of Mormon Central's new book, Knowing Why: 137 Evidences that the Book of Mormon is True, brings together many of the best evidences on the Book of Mormon into one place. I decided to compile a list of the 10 evidences I find most convincing. We were told the ancients did not preserve records on plates.1 We were told ancient Israelites, in particular, … Available in stores and online at Deseret Book, Seagull Book, Amazon.com, and the BYU Store. The issue of inscribed metal plates in stone boxes has been so effectively laid to rest by modern archaeology that Latter-day Saints hardly remember when it was one of Mormonism’s most prevalent and scathing criticisms. The Book of Mormon Evidences Activity Book (The Book of Mormon on Trial): Rich, J. Milton, Knaupp, Andrew: Amazon.sg: Books Many in the community have written more about some of these topics in the last year. 597 BC with Both, Mulek's Likely Route in White Passing by La Venta, Teotihacan 772 Air Kilometers from Proposed Zarahemla, Tetitla, Teotihuacan photo taken by Kirk Magleby September 23, 2017, Sites with Teotihuacan Influence ca. Ca. There are translation errors in these verses (preserved in the BoM) that he rated as "Completely Inaccurate (KJV is in error)", edit: I compiled Joosten's comments and comments I later received from other scholars in this article: Scholar Survey: King James Version translation errors in Book of Mormon Isaiah passages. These evidences are meant to convince us that it's reasonable to investigate this book and pray to God for answers. Thank you again for the well-produced and very thoughtful video. It mostly consists of evidences of The Book of Mormon. There are at least a handful of 1769 KJV translation errors which are included in the Book of Mormon (i.e., the original Hebrew would not have been understood that way and so the translation reflects copying from the 1769 KJV Bible rather than a fresh translation of an ancient source). It is nice to see how this amazing Book of Mormon is filled with Old Testament and Jewish evidences. Article by Kirk Magleby, volunteer Executive Director of, Clay Seal Excavated in Jerusalem in the 1980's, Naham Tribal Area between Sana'a and Marib in Yemen, My friend, Warren Aston, pointing out the name NHM on an altar that pre-dates Lehi, Nearly Eastward from the Naham Tribal Area to Likely Bountiful, Ostracon from Tel Arad ca. Evidences include “wordprints,” “witnesses,” “chiasmus,” “Hebraisms,” and other discoveries by modern scholars that can strengthen one's testimony of the Book of Mormon. The original text did not mean what is preserved in the 1769 KJV in these verses. ... 19th century ideological parallels, ... Nibley's bon mot ... the Book of Mormon is bound to touch on ideas that represent multiple times and places, and most assuredly those that are universal, as is the case here. In the video description, Gently Hew Stone writes the following: These facts establish how plausible it is that the Book of Mormon really is an artifact of the ancient world. Much evidence exists to support the claims made by the Book of Mormon.. With the points of Chiasmus, I offer this illustration on how using Chiasmus as evidence can be problematic. This means that either the scribes were not aware of his sources, lied about his sources, JS hid the bible from them, or JS was capable of memorizing long sections of the bible and reproducing it. Due to the nature of its origin, that would support the existence of God. On point 2, the guy basically pushes forward the limited geography model, which has its own problems and isn't even agreed upon by all Mormon scholars to begin with, but again, it's like shoehorning the description given in the Book of Mormon to a place that loosely seems like it could fit. The Book of Mormon says Lehi and his family used an amalgamation of, 4. This means that Joseph was not conveying the actual meaning of the original text (which we might expect if it were an omniscient being guiding the translation) but instead reflects the verbiage of the bible he had access to. Virtually every theological point made in the BoM is reflective of an early 1800s conversation (e.g., echoes). Updated response to "Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences" by Jamie Huston. Evidence of the Book of Mormon. 9 74 By Alex Balinski Blog LDS August 1, 2018. But to suggest that Joseph Smith did no research is utterly nonsense. For reference, our current youtube comment thread (under the name "Faenrandir Turion") are reproduced below: Thank you for this well-researched video and for defending the position in the comments. I don't claim it to be an exhaustive encyclopedia of all information for and against the book. I think it goes far beyond what Nibley might have expected. In this unprecedented guide through the Book of Mormon, readers are invited on an exploration of the scriptures that asks—and answers—some of the most intriguing questions about the Book of Mormon, such as: Why would a book be sealed? In every reference to the city of Nephi one goes up to approach the city and down to travel away from it (See the article ", The only point mentioned in the text at an elevation higher than the city of Nephi is a hill north of Shilom, The city of Nephi was the principal urban area in its region, A smaller sister city, Shilom, was very close to Nephi, The institution of kingship was established in Nephi. 5.0 out of 5 stars Came sooner. In their 2005 Journal of Book of Mormon Studies article, Pike and Seely demonstrate clearly how 2 Nephi 12:16 is best considered a mis-translation rather than evidence of translation from a now lost source. Anciently, a band of lakes stretched through Central Mexico from Chapala in Jalisco to Catemaco in Veracruz. The Book of Mormon copies verbatim from a New Testament text (e.g., Mark 16) which is highly likely to have been a later invention. Furthermore, we are concerned that Sperry’s explanation has been too readily and uncritically accepted by Latter-day Saints and that 2 Nephi 12:16 footnote 16a in the current edition of the Book of Mormon continues to encourage the oversimplification of this issue. Critics often select a simple parallelism in the Book of Mormon and say, “Well, that could have been an accident.” And they are absolutely right. Amazon Customer. The author fails to consider the weight of evidence in favor of a modern origin. Some of them, I think, count as legitimate evidence in favor of the historical model (even if they are not conclusive). AD 380, Bearded Figure from Tres Zapotes Excavated by Matthew Stirling, Kaminaljuyu Sculpture 79 in Museo Nacional, Guatemala City, Top Ten Literary and Linguistic Evidences for the Book of Mormon, Five Compelling Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon. See other criticism here. This is actually a video rebuttal to an anti-Mormon video called The Bible vs. Book of Mormon Evidences, Part One discusses some of the many factors supporting the plausibility of the Book of Mormon as an ancient document. Plus your 1769 KJV falls apart when you come to realize that the same terminology appears in multiple KJVs from the last thousand years. The man was well acquainted with Adam Clarke's commentary on the bible, with Jewish traditions, and much more, and he didn't just pull that stuff out of his hat, as it were. Book of Mormon Evidences in Ancient America [dewey farnsworth] on Amazon.com. Even if the odds are astronomically high, it does not mean that it is compelling evidence, especially when other, more solid evidence is lacking. Some, I still do not have great counterpoints for. How is Christ both the Father and the Son? I agree that we might expect some universalities and parallels based on this idea. Anti-LDS antagonists, after a superficial reading of the Book of Mormon, sometime conclude that that there was only one author – Joseph Smith. You seem to think your best point against my presentation here is the Septuagint phrase in 2 Nephi, even finding it to be evidence of modern fraud. Serious study of the Book of Mormon by Latter-day Saints is flourishing today as never before. A community dedicated to evenhanded, thoughtful, empirical-based discussion of Mormonism. The addition is evidence that JS had no understanding of the underlying meaning of the Hebrew text (and neither did the KJV translators at the time). Press J to jump to the feed. For example, evidence to support the claim by Mormons that Native Americans are … your own Pins on Pinterest Likewise, a superficial reading of the King James Version would lead a casual reader to the same conclusion about the Bible. Native American Evidences of Book of Mormon Contents. Beyond that, we're quibbling about idioms in translation. But what exactly is your theory there? She said "... these figures represent two racially distinct groups of people." It does nothing to clear up adding old English words to help readers in the last thousand years. entitled “Evidences in proof of the Book of Mormon” &c. The Book of Mormon speaks of lions in the same way: “A lion among the beasts of the forest… treadeth down and teareth into pieces, and none can deliver” (3 Nephi 21:12), “they fought like lions for their prey” (Mosiah 20:10), “they were struck with great fear and fled… as a goat fleeth with her young from two lions.” This really isn’t substantiated real well outside of Mormon critical circles. Still, we ought to adjust our confidence in a claim depending on how robust the support for and against it. There is no good apologetic for this verse that I am aware of. Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences These facts establish how plausible it is that the Book of Mormon really is an artifact of the ancient world. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Needs to be reread perhaps several times to truly understand all the depth here. Due to the nature of its origin, that would support the existence of God. The following three (closely related) points suggest that notes or a manuscript may have been consulted: The primary FairMormon apologetic for the inclusion of Deutero-Isaiah assumes that Joseph referenced the relevant KJV chapters and dictated them to his scribe (also discussed here). Beyond that, we're quibbling about idioms in translation. BOOK OF MORMON CENTRAL: Evidences of the Book of Mormon (Old World Geography) Have you ever wondered where in the world Nephi and his family traveled before they set sail for the Americas? Ancient writers were masters of puns and other plays on words deployed for rhetorical effect. I have responded to four points from the video (for now) at r/mormonscholar under the post "Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences (by Gently Hew Stone)".I would love to discuss these (and other points) in greater depth there. Sep 28, 2020 - Explore Jerrilyn Gillespie's board "Evidences to Support the Book of Mormon" on Pinterest. The real meat in this discussion is the evidence in this video. Maybe there are no notes that we know of. The Book of Mormon says the people of Zarahemla (commonly called Mulekites) sailed across the sea from the ancient Near East ca. It's not fatal to the historical BoM argument by itself, but it strongly suggests that JS was capable of referencing alternative sources (either hiding it from the scribes or in collusion with them) or memorizing what was necessary. EVIDENCES IN PROOF OF THE BOOK OF MORMON By Charles Thompson, minister of the gospel; published at Batavia, N.Y. From the Times and Seasons 3:5; pp. This heavy reliance on Clarke was never mentioned by any of the scribes assisting Joseph during the dictation of the JST, which also suggests that Joseph was capable of consulting outside sources without notice or mention from his scribes while producing the BoM. Some critics may claim that there is no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. Scholars Paul R. Cheesman and C. Wilfred Griggs both comment on “the numerous casual references to pruning, cultivating, fertilizing, grafting, preserving species by grafting, bud sprouts, scion vigor, root rejuv… The Book of Mormon mentions a pre-existing place called Nahom on the Red Sea side of the Arabian Peninsula. These facts establish how plausible it is that the Book of Mormon really is an artifact of the ancient world. Get insights into latter-day prophesy and learn how prophesies in the Bible and other books of scripture have been fulfilled and how they may yet … 1 And, with more study, the book’s sturdiness and richness and the remarkable accomplishment of its translator, the Prophet Joseph Smith, become more apparent for everyone to see. Point 3, accurate ancient people's names, pushes Nahom really hard, but from the beginning people have viewed Nahom with pretty intense skepticism, even within the church and among Mormon scholars. Ancient literary traditions in largely oral cultures used narrative structures as mnemonic devices in their... 2. There are at least a handful of 1769 KJV translation errors which are included in the Book of Mormon (i.e., the original Hebrew would not have been understood that way and so the translation reflects copying from the 1769 KJV Bible rather than a fresh translation of an ancient source). Please focus comments on discussion of these ten evidences disagreement is … Again, this supports what we would expect from someone copying the KJV text rather than transmission of fresh information from the source. Then, one may put it … This new book is a compilation of re-edited and updated KnoWhys written by John W. … What sense does that make? As an apologist of 20 years I was simply not prepared for the extraordinary number of these close parallels. The theology of the Book of Mormon is very much 19th century theology, and it reads like a 19th century understanding of the Hebrew Bible as an Old Testament …. A friend recently shared a story about a young man in his ward. is a telling point. It is obvious from reading Jacob 5 that Zenos had considerable knowledge of the very complicated process of olive cultivation. From a purely intellectual perspective, this book presents many astonishing evidences of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Discover (and save!) Of course this is not necessary--I agree that these are most of the best evidences and great for 10 minutes. The promise is typically implemented as a closed loop that admits of only one possible answer. Contrary to the claims of our critics, there are many interesting findings that … As for 19th century ideological parallels, surely you remember Nibley's bon mot that a text as vast and detailed as the Book of Mormon is bound to touch on ideas that represent multiple times and places, and most assuredly those that are universal, as is the case here. The Book of Mormon was translated from golden plates. This is actually a video rebuttal to an anti-Mormon video called The Bible vs. I addressed a few of your main points in some depth here in this reddit thread (here, here, here, and here). If you'd care to present an alternative description, please do so. ", New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the mormonscholar community. A few of them, however, demonstrate Smith’s open reliance upon Clarke and establish that he was inclined to lean on Clarke’s commentary for matters of history, textual questions, clarification of wording, and theological nuance. Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences These facts establish how plausible it is that the Book of Mormon really is an artifact of the ancient world. If they could simply fix a few things on a transcript that needed fixing that didn't require the whole thing to be replaced, then they went ahead and kept it with minor fixes added. Most of them are weaker than the author probably realizes. To be clear, I'm not suggesting plagiarism--I am saying that the evidence that the BoM was produced by an early 1800s mind is extensive and (IMHO) conclusive. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. It is the word of God and, like the Bible, gives us guidance and inspiration in our daily lives. Tatiana Proskouriakoff, "Olmec and Maya Art: Problems of Their Stylistic Relation" in, 6. We discussed this video about a year ago here. Why are horses mentioned in the Book of Mormon? 588 BC and made landfall in the land northward, then settled permanently in a sparsely-populated part of the land southward, Tatiana Proskouriakoff called the person on the right "... a bearded man with a conspicuously aquiline nose." Do we have evidence that people in the area built boats? edit: In addition, there is abundant evidence that Joseph Smith consulted Adam Clarke's commentary during creation of the JST: Our research has revealed that the number of direct parallels between Smith’s translation and Adam Clarke’s biblical commentary are simply too numerous and explicit to posit happenstance or coincidental overlap. Home Blog Top 40 Inspirational Book of Mormon Scriptures. It's a powerful presentation. 2 Nephi 12:16 is of particular interest because it used to be viewed as a significant point in favor of an inspired translation of an ancient text, but additional research by BYU scholars clearly demonstrates it to be a misunderstanding of the meaning of the text. There is no evidence that he used any notes or did any research (here). Of course, this doesn't mean chiasmus isn't possibly evidence of the Book of Mormon, it just isn't enough on its own because of how easily it can naturally occur in literature in general. I think it is important that the historical model is well-researched and defended. She called the figure a "bearded visitor" and a "bearded stranger." The Book of Mormon. bwv549; faenrandir@gmail.com; Resources, research, and thoughts related to the truth-claims, teachings, and culture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka the Mormon Church). Indeed, every one of your claims against the book could hold water, and it could still be true. Still, I think this response only works for a reasonable number of somewhat vague parallels. Native American writings are potentially strong evidence that the occurrences described in the Book of Mormon actually happened. See more here. I recently went through these meticulously and had Jan Joosten weigh in on these (but I didn't tell him my purpose, just asking for his opinion on the translation of the verses). By Staff Blog Facts List Items May 14, 2019. The whole framing of “errors” is a modern creation when people started translation attempts into modern American English. And the fact that there is no evidence of notes or research is... well, sure. The Book of Mormon mentions Mulek ( Yale 2009 Muloch), son of Zedekiah (ca. The opening of the book about the revisions and the timeframe of the Book of Mormon are a bit frustrating for several reasons. Paronomasia. (emphasis added). A few months ago, I received an email from John L. Sorenson (now 93 years old) who asked that I share some of his thoughts on the subject. The evidence in favor of a modern origin (e.g., here) is substantial and, I think, overwhelms these evidences. In fact, the use of the word 'pictures' instead of craft is considered a clear translation error by Jan Joosten (without discussing my purpose, I asked him to rate the correctness of the word 'pictures' in the translation of that verse). Citing salient points from his 2013 magnum opus, 3. It mostly consists of evidences of The Book of Mormon. We compare the ratio of the likelihood probability of two competing hypotheses. Most of them are far weaker than you perhaps realize (and at least one is actually a counterpoint against the historical model upon closer inspection). The fact that the BoM includes the 1769 KJV translation error (along with many other translation errors) strongly suggests that the Isaiah verses included in the BoM bear no relationship to how they would have been transmitted by an ancient Hebrew mind. Video: Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences. Hence the discussion of each claim and my introduction of the evidence for an alternative theory which I think is better supported by the existing data set. 2 Of course, scholarship does not replace spiritual witness as a source of testimony. What a great book to strengthen my understanding and testimony of the Book of Mormon. See more ideas about the book of mormon, book of mormon, mormon. Buy The Book of Mormon Evidences Activity Book (The Book of Mormon on Trial) by Rich, J. Milton, Knaupp, Andrew, Koford, Adam (ISBN: 9781976918797) from Amazon's Book Store. It is part of a collection that includes Book of Mormon Evidences, Part Two, Book of Mormon Evidences, Part Three, and Book of Mormon Nuggets.. I address specific points in other comments. One of the specific examples (Isaiah 2:6 -> 2Nephi 12:6) actually weighs against the historical model upon closer inspection. Taken together, all of these substantiate the idea that JS was capable of utilizing other sources (perhaps a manuscript or perhaps indirectly) unknown to the scribes or in collusion with them. I summarize the best arguments against chiasmus as evidence of the BoM's ancientness here. What more do we have that corroborates the timeframe than the claims made by the people involved? In this video, the top 10 evidences of The Book of Mormon are presented. Conversely, my claims for it could all be exposed as faulty, and it could also still be true. I have responded to four points from the video (for now) at r/mormonscholar under the post "Top 10 Book of Mormon Evidences (by Gently Hew Stone)".I would love to discuss these (and other points) in greater depth there. The recent discovery by BYU scholars of plagiarism in the JST from Adam Clarke's bible commentary further underscores JS's ability to consult outside sources without attribution or knowledge of his scribes (as discussed here). ASHERAH – The Book of Mormon includes an extended vision focused around the Tree of Life and those who seek after the fruit of the tree. Book of Mormon Evidences Explore the prophesies in the scriptures, learn theories about Book of Mormon geography & more.

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