Found insideThis first biography from Michele Kort, Soul Picnic, uncovers previously never revealed details, including a love affair with Jackson Browne, and her relationship with painter Maria Desiderio. Leno may have won "The Tonight Show" but for the first couple years of the Late Night Wars, Letterman handily defeated him. Late Night Wars Round II Years after the Jay Leno/David Letterman feud inspired much speculation, Bill Carter's bestseller "The Late Shift," and a TV movie based on the book in which the great John Michael Higgins played Letterman in a bad wig, it looks like we have a whole new late night war brewing. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . Letterman too does a monologue, but it’s more obligatory: In the early years he would only do four or five jokes, and they served more as a parody of a monologue. âThat would drive him nuts,â Leno said with a smile, noting how the two clicked comedically and understood each otherâs rhythms. When first published to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Saturday Night Live, Live from New York was immediately proclaimed the best book ever produced on the landmark and legendary late-night show. In recent decades, late-night transitions have been marked by an intense, boxing-match-style circus of hype and speculation over how various . Jimmy Kimmel And David Letterman Reminisce About Jay Leno Joke "Fun" . "[29] James Poniewozik of Time wrote, "There are lots of juicy bits, but the big takeaway: the guy with the best contract, wins",[30] and called the book, "Bill Carter's Jaypocalypse dirt-disher". He mocked NBC execs on air, and later, at CBS, Les Moonves. NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Stock market losses, accounting fraud and . [9], The War for Late Night chronicles the 2010 conflict surrounding the American late-night talk show The Tonight Show involving Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno. Call a cease-fire in the late-night wars! Better to hold on to the legacy franchises as long as you can. But it wasn't always certain that Leno would be Carson's forebear. The Nielsen verdict will be decisive, of course: Jay has drawn more viewers (old and young) almost every year he and Dave have faced each other at 11:35. The winner of Leno-Letterman won’t be judged on how many years each man lasted, or who got the bigger ratings. Letterman tapes "Late Show" on Broadway in New York, while Leno tapes "The Tonight Show" in Burbank. Jimmy Kimmel was on the other side of the desk last night as a guest on "The Late Show with David Letterman," and he spent part of it reminiscing with Letterman about the good ol' days, back in January, 2010, when Leno was the butt of Letterman and Kimmel's jokes and the only loser in all of it was NBC. Found inside – Page 81At the time, the late-night television wars were heating up, with Jay Leno and David Letterman vying to replace the retiring Johnny Carson at The Tonight ... In The War For Late Night, Bill Carter covers the second war for late night, between Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien for The Tonight Show (the first being between Jay and David Letterman in the early 90s, the subject of Carter's The Late Shift). Unlike with real wars, the history of pop culture isn’t written by the victors. His refusal to lobby for Carson’s gig cost him the Tonight job, but it also cast him as the underdog, the man who wouldn’t play the corporate game. "[34], On January 19, 2010, during O'Brien's last week of shows, guest Quentin Tarantino jokingly suggested that he direct a sequel to The Late Shift, cast O'Brien as himself and make it a revenge movie in the style of his film Kill Bill with the title Late Shift 2: The Rolling Thunder of Revenge. By all accounts, he’s been commendably loyal to his writers and staff, fighting as long as he could to keep their salaries high and jobs secure even as ratings for all the late-night shows plunged. It was a smart move for Leno for the near-term: Everyone watched Jay to hear his O.J. Because this is America, a victor will need to be declared. Roku’s New Streaming Devices Promise to Be Faster, Biz Markie Had Exactly What Hip-Hop Needed. But with some minor "Tweeks".... JAY LENO visits Late Night Playset to talk Cars & David Letterman LNP387, Leno Dishes on Letterman, Late Night Wars and His Humble Roots. [16], NBC executives tried to solve the problem so that both Leno and O'Brien would keep their jobs. It chronicles the 2010 conflict surrounding the American late-night talk show The Tonight Show involving Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno. Leno frequently appeared on the latterâs show, sometimes bringing a bag brimming with hoagies ⦠which he devoured on air. While The Late Shift is in no way as good as the original book that describes in detail what happened to David Letterman, Jay Leno, Johnny Carson, Helen Kushnik and the rest of the late night cast of Characters, it is quite enjoyable, a good ride, and a fun time. Then in 2008, it was decided that the final "Tonight Show with Jay . If it did, Letterman’s Don Draper dalliances wouldn’t help his cause. Log in or link your magazine subscription, Justin Bieber, left, shows Dave his tuxedo shirt on the Late Show with David Letterman, Monday Jan. 31, 2011 on the CBS Television Network. The first collection of lists from the popular "Top Ten List" segment on CBS's Late Show with David Letterman ranges from the topical to the trivial to the truly absurd. 500,000 first printing. $500,000 ad/promo. He did that, and then some. Hopes that the Late Night wars were coming to an end have been dashed again. While he may have rarely worn a ratings crown, David Letterman will be remembered as the last true King of Late Night, the final legend of a TV genre – the network talk show – that is quickly going the way of the soap opera. By CinecraftStudios July 17, 2021 Updated: July 21, 2021 No Comments 4 Mins Read And he's held no punches about what he thinks of the 2010 scrum. A bewildered, increasingly outraged Conan O'Brien and an anxiously pragmatic Jay Leno. [10] Carter gives biographical description of other late-night television personalities, including David Letterman, Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Craig Ferguson, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Leno frequently appeared on the latter's show, sometimes bringing a bag brimming with hoagies … which he devoured on air. The silly pulpit, if you will. Found inside – Page 133The Late Shift : Letterman , Leno , and the Network Battle for the Night . ... By 1996 Leno was regularly winning the late night ratings wars , and by the ... It stood by him during the scandals and the heart surgery. And just because I am a fan of Letterman doesn't mean my view is blinkered, I am just not a fan of Leno's comedy. Jay Leno doesn't see any bad blood between him and David Letterman. [24] Carter also says that compared to the eventual payout to O'Brien of $45 million, NBC would have suffered a financial loss of $235 million if O'Brien had left the company in 2004 to host a talk show for another network. "[7] Carter said that he was remaining neutral about the 2010 Tonight Show conflict. Your email address will not be published. [41] Andy Richter jokingly told Movieline that he would want Justin Bieber to portray him in a film adaptation of the book. What were the late night wars? The infamous late-night wars of the 1990s briefly resurfaced in 2010 when Conan O'Brien was given The Tonight Show, only to have it basically taken away from him a few months later. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy. Found insideYou can remark on how The Larry Sanders Show was criminally funny, ... the most of the fever pitch of the Late-Night wars between Leno and Letterman. It was first published on November 4, 2010, by Viking Press. I had a shitty lead-in. [42], CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (, The Legally Prohibited from Being Funny on Television Tour, "Time for Coco to relax and have some fun", "Bill Carter's New Book Will Focus On Conan O'Brien-Jay Leno Debacle", "Late Shift Author Bill Carter on ConanGate, Letterman's Heirs and the Cannibalization of Late Night", "All's Fair in Love and TV: Bill Carter, 'The War for Late Night, "Bill Carter's The War for Late Night Excerpt Is As Tense And Entertaining As Expected", "Conan O'Brien gets new shot at chasing Carson's mantle", "The Best Quotes From Behind-the-Scenes of the Conan-Leno War", "Late Night Wars, Exposed: New Book Reveals Why Conan Lost, How NBC Fawned Over Leno", "Leno Had NBC Over a Legal Barrel, Says Bill Carter's New Book", "Conan Vs. Jay: The Best Bits From Bill Carter's Book On O'Brien-Leno Fiasco", "Leno vs. Conan TV Wars, Hot Details in Bill Carter's New Book", "Bill Carter's book reveals explosive new details about the Jay Leno-O'Brien debacle", "Pick of the day: The ballad of Jay and Conan", "What Really Went Down During the Conan vs. Leno Brawl: Juiciest Quotes From 'The War for Late Night, "Conan won't invite Jay on new show, except to sing", "Leno, Conan, Zucker, and 'The War for Late Night, "Excerpt: 'The War for Late Night' By Bill Carter", "Book Review, The War for Late Night (2010), Bill Carter", "The war for late night: In 'Tonight Show' battle, Leno wasn't always the bad guy", "The Morning Fix: Can't remember what happened 10 months ago in late night? Although there was competition for years during David Letterman and Jay Leno's late-night ratings war, Leno remains pragmatic about it as of this writing. or frequent guests with whom he had such memorable – and often confrontational – chemistry (Rupert Jee, Jack Hanna, Kamarr the Discount Magician). But five years after its last episode aired, the show is widely regarded as one of TV’s best dramas ever and pops up as a pop-culture reference in everything from Salmon Fishing in the Yemen to Lil Wayne lyrics. That was when the current era in the ongoing late-night talk-show wars came into focus. Making movies, he said, doesnât jibe with his comedy hungers. Liam Gallagher Fell Out of a Helicopter, Bruv, “Who said RnR is dead Keith Moon eat your drum skin out.”. The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy is a 2010 non-fiction book written by The New York Times media reporter Bill Carter. "These are the late-night wars," said . [27], Writing for New York Post, Larry Getlen wrote, "Veteran journalist Bill Carter details the vicious recent battle over The Tonight Show, showing how Leno was hardly the devious schemer he was made out to be, and how OâBrien was not always the angelic innocent the media portrayed, as he and his team aggressively pursued the show at every opportunity. Broadcast September 3, 1993. In what have since been dubbed the famous "Late Night Wars," Leno and David Letterman duked it out for the opportunity to host the late night show. We remember rebels. "The folks dwelling on Leno beating Letterman [which he did again last week] miss the point," tvbythenumbers.com, a rating Web site that has been following the late-night wars closely, wrote . âThere was always jokes in between the jokes.â. "Jay Leno's Tonight show [is explored] in this book by insider Dave Berg, who spent 18 years as Jay's co-producer. There were always two shows: the one on stage and the one behind the curtain. Leno may be one of the most recognizable faces in Hollywood, but at the start of his stand-up career he just wanted a place to sling jokes. He did that with a clever ruse he played repeatedly around Boston clubs. He’s back with a beard September 30 on Apple TV+. The behind-the-scenes story of the making of the iconic movie Network, which transformed the way we think about television and the way television thinks about us "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore! Jay Leno takes it on the chin from NBC when the network informs him his future as Tonight Show host has a looming shelf life. Robert Erler's "A Guide to Television Talk" complements the text with an extensive "who's who" listing of important people and programs in the history of television talk. As long Leno doesn . In a television landscape undergoing explosive growth, the TV Academy isn’t looking far or wide enough. With David Letterman, Jon Stewart, Chelsea Handler . The battle in the late-night wars got louder Thursday as a top NBC executive struck back against on-air attacks by Conan O'Brien and David Letterman on Jay Leno. He needs to hand the keys to Conan O'Brien, who doesn't want to be stuck in the 12:30 slot forever. Every product is independently selected by (obsessive) editors. Late night talk show wars. I don't just pick one and stick with that guy. Fallon has become strategically critical to NBC parent NBCUniversal, and is its lead jouster in the increasingly contentious late-night wars. When beloved host Johnny Carson announced his retirement after thirty years on The Tonight Show, millions of Americans mourned.But inside the television industry, the news ignited a battle between two amazing talents—Jay Leno and David Letterman—who both yearned to . Save this story for later. LATE NIGHT GOP WARS: Letterman Pits Mitt Romney Against Leno's Sarah Palin The Deadline ^ | 2/25/10 | staff Posted on 02/25/2010 7:09:51 PM PST by pissant. Smirks amid the scandals. Leno may have won "The Tonight Show" but for the first couple years of the Late Night Wars, Letterman handily defeated him. [14] According to Carter, Leno had an advantage during negotiations because of a stronger contract agreement with NBC,[15] which gave Leno the option to sue NBC if his program was canceled. Rap’s pioneering “Clown Prince,” as remembered by his friends, family, collaborators, and admirers. "[25] Paula Duffy of HULIQ News described the book as "a juicy tell-all". Today, Leno is still beating Letterman in the . Over two decades of resentment and bitterness not only left its mark on the artists involved, but on late-night in general. (Sadly, he’s done enough on his own to diminish his reputation, particularly with his continued insistence that he never agreed to turn over The Tonight Show to Conan O’Brien). He got cast, more or less, as the villain in the late night battles with Letterman and Conan. Now Bill Carter, bestselling author of The Late Shift, goes behind the scenes to reveal the inner workings of the television industry, capturing the true portraits of the larger-than-life moguls and stars who make it such a cutthroat ... And while Leno has now been battered and bullied by two different NBC regimes and forced to give up his throne twice, CBS has wisely said Dave can stay for as long as he wants. The bizarre experiences of two childhood friends from Scotland and of two illegitimate half-brothers from the American South become mysteriously intertwined, in a bawdy, hilarious debut novel by the host of The Late Late Show. '"[23] O'Brien was hurt by the fact that Leno did not communicate directly with him during the fiasco. It will all come down to who built a legacy. âYouâre only as good as your last joke,â Leno told co-hosts J. and Nicole Ryan as part of their free-wheeling banter. Starring Alexandra Breckenridge and Martin Henderson. Such a great insight into the world and war of Late Night. Not a fan of Leno before I knew the dealings, even more so now. Jay Leno has every excuse to play the celebrity card. Now that Conan O'Brien is back on television, one might be forgiven for thinking the late night wars were behind us. [17], Nate Jones wrote for Time magazine, "There are no landmark surprisesâJay Leno comes off as affably opportunistic, Conan O'Brien as a tragic self-dramatist with a little bit of a martyrdom complexâbut it's a worthwhile look at the procedural negotiations that led to last winter's messy divorce. His recurring bits will linger because they were conceptual, not topical; Jay told jokes. Found insideThe stories in The Art of Business Wars are fascinating, but the lessons we draw from them - about determination, ingenuity, patience, grit, subtlety, and other key traits that contribute to a victorious enterprise - are invaluable, whether ... From The New Yorker’s fiercely original, Pulitzer Prize-winning culture critic, a provocative collection of new and previously published essays arguing that we are what we watch. “Emily Nussbaum is the perfect critic—smart, engaging, ... But for a movie reputed to be the biggest disaster since the Hindenburg, this chronicle of the late-night wars between David Letterman and Jay Leno that dominated the entertainment press a few . Media Wake Up, Realize Comedy Crumbling in Our Woke Age, Here’s Everything You Missed About ‘John Carpenterâs Ghosts of Mars’, Comic: TikTok Censorship No Laughing Matter, Why Even Clint Eastwood Fanatics Will Be Let Down by ‘Cry Macho’, Terrence K. Williams, Steve McGrew Hit the Road with Right-Leaning Laughs, Before ‘Belfast,’ Branagh Scared Us Silly with ‘Dead Again’, No Fluke: ‘Gutfeld!’ Remains Late Night King. He hosted "The Tonight Show" for 22 years and hung out earlier than, within the center and after as one of many nation's premier stand-up comics. His âTonight Showâ tenure is the stuff of legends, but the powers that be made it less than paradise behind the scenes. You\'ll receive the next newsletter in your inbox. Found insideThe behind-the-scenes story of the iconic funnymen who ruled '80s Hollywood—Bill Murray, Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, John Belushi, Dan Aykroyd, and Eddie Murphy—and the beloved films that made them stars, including Animal House, ... The Wire didn’t win anything when it was on the air: Emmys, ratings, or much respect from HBO. Now all it needs is a Ken Burns documentary! Found inside – Page 132HBO's venomous sketch of the late-night-TV wars concentrates too much on network politics, not enough on the arrested development of Letterman and Leno. . Hope’s authoritarian leadership is getting out of control — if something doesn’t change soon, who knows the consequences for the students? It is the story of the ultimate Hollywood con job and the standard by which every subsequent business blunder has been measured. âThey’re always looking to replace you at some point,â he said of his âTonight Showâ tenure, noting NBC attempted just that a year into his time behind the desk. Leno sounded far less comfortable recalling his box office bust, the 1989 comedy âCollision Courseâ with Pat Morita, a film he quickly slammed as âterrible.â. As the âTonight Showâ host, Leno deferred to the showâs producer and creative elements. Found inside – Page 472The fourth agreement has NBC giving Letterman $35 million per year, thereby beating CBS's deal. By doing so, NBC retains its $100 million late-night gold ... The brouhaha has been brewing for nearly a decade — since Leno, now 51, took over the "Tonight" show from Johnny Carson in August 1992. This led to the "late night wars" between the two hosts when Letterman moved to CBS to host his own talk show in direct competition with Leno. Leno and Letterman are the Professor X and Magneto of comedy, and the Late-Night Wars—Jay and Dave's relationship included—can be best summed up as a missed opportunity. 2010: Letterman and . Letterman had three distinct advantages over Leno: public sympathy, a . Jay Leno made news when he announced that Sarah Palin will be among his high-profile guests when he returns to The Tonight Show next week (aka "The Jaysurrection"). He'll also reflect on his . Watch Howard Stern Try and Fail to Restart the Late-Night Wars Between Letterman and Leno. Long gone are the days of a bitter ratings battle between Jay Leno and David Letterman and even the days of a tight race between Stephen Colbert and Jimmy . Both Leno and Letterman are played well, if not a wee bit over-acted. "I obviously have to reach out to all sides", he said. Found inside – Page 362very generation or so, we get a new crop of late night talk show hosts. ... Johnny Carson's throne between David Letterman and Jay Leno is legendary. It chronicles the 2010 conflict surrounding the American late-night talk show The Tonight Show involving Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno.It is a sequel to Carter's 1994 book The Late Shift, which detailed the struggle for the hosting spot on The . "[7] Carter researched the impact of financial decision-making on the controversy. Bill Carter's new book, 'The War for Late Night,' reveals what happened behind the scenes of the Conan O'Brien vs. Jay Leno brawl over 'The Tonight Show,' the expletives that were hurled during . Found insideIn Riding the Elephant, there are some stories that are too graphic for television, too politically incorrect for social media, or too meditative for a stand-up comedy performance. Found insideDiscover the cutthroat world behind the polite smiles and perky demeanors of morning news in the book that inspired the Apple TV series starring Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Aniston, and Steve Carrell. Leno reminisced about his early days in comedy, his matter-of-fact approach to âThe Tonight Showâ and his ultimate frenemy, fellow late night icon David Letterman. A dramatization of the rivalry between David Letterman and Jay Leno to over which of them would succeed Johnny Carson as the host of "The Tonight Show". When he appeared on "Watch What Happens Live With Andy Cohen" in 2019, Leno explained how he and Letterman started out as . âI like the immediacy of doing stand up,â said Leno, adding he performed stand-up appearances during the shooting of the film and that the late Morita once worked the comedy circuit as the self-described âHip Nip,â a racial slur that wouldnât fly today. But the final judgment on Leno and Letterman has nothing to do with what kind of man either is. '"[33] Paul Schwartzman of The Washington Post wrote that it "is a great read and an example of narrative journalism's power when practiced by a reporter steeped in his subject matter. I’ve talked to Jay a few times by phone, and will never forget the time, about fifteen years ago, when I was visiting Tonight’s Burbank offices and Leno surprised me by popping into the break room … just as I was shoving a jelly donut into my piehole. I have no idea whether Letterman has finally shaken off the bitterness from not getting Tonight, but he should be forever grateful he “lost.” That so-called failure forced Letterman (and his team) to build something new, taking his Late Night sensibility and amping it up for a larger crowd and bigger stage, free of worrying about whether they were honoring the history of Dave’s idol Johnny. [18] Carter details a heated exchange between NBC executive Jeff Zucker and O'Brien's agent Rick Rosen during which Zucker told O'Brien's representatives he could enforce O'Brien's contract and "ice him for two years", after details of the conflict were leaked to the media. A One-Night Shift in the Late-Night Wars. Jay Leno, King of Late Night, back at 11:35 p.m. Is this a great country or what? The Late-Night Wars Are Now Just a Battle for Survival. Maintaining a lead over Letterman (and now Jimmy Kimmel), even as NBC’s prime-time lineup has collapsed around him, is no small feat. ", "Weekend Reading: How Jay Beat Conan (and NBC)", "Letterman Defeats Leno! Found insideThe ultimate guide to the classic time travel trilogy by the host of Back to the Future: The Podcast—“Great Scott, this is a must-read” (Ken Napzak, author of Why We Love Star Wars). The The Tonight Show host describes his comedy career, his stint as a nighttime television host, and his relationships with friends, family, and professional associates He also kept up his steady stand-up career while collecting millions for taking the baton from Johnny Carson. (N) 11PM (N) Letterman ShowCraig 3 u!! Jay Leno has come to David Letterman's defense. The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy - Kindle edition by Carter, Bill. Found insideWhen Jay Leno was losing the late-night wars to David Letterman, he and his producers decided to do over the set. One element of their redesign was to bring ... By Team OOC Jan 15th . Have We Reached Peak Hollywood Hypocrisy? [13] Jeff Simon of The Buffalo News called the book a "definitive history" of the 2010 Tonight Show conflict. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. For Letterman and Leno, losing money can be funny as Wall St. hits home. The 2010 Tonight Show conflict was a media and public relations conflict involving the American television network NBC and two of its late-night talk show hosts, Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno.. Leno, the host of long-running franchise The Tonight Show since 1992, and O'Brien, host of Late Night since 1993, were strong ratings leaders for the network for much of the decade. Prime-time programming may . "That would drive him nuts," Leno said with a . Late-Night Wars: Jimmy Kimmel Dishes on Letterman and Leno Copy The late-night TV competition is heating up, and all three hosts - David Letterman, Jay Leno and Jimmy Kimmel - are making . jokes, to see him skewer Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal. Machine Gun Kelly Tried to Come for Slipknot at Riot Fest, He dissed the band for “being 50 years old, wearing a f*ckin’ weird mask on a f*ckin’ stage.”. Johnny’s shadow hasn’t hung over Jay for years, but that’s mostly because the shadow faded, not because Leno established another enduring personality. The infamous late-night wars of the 1990s (which briefly resurfaced in 2010 when Conan O'Brien was given The Tonight Show, only to have it basically taken away from him a few months later . That Letterman won ’ t even be close shut the door ( to my office,... Between him and David Letterman Reminisce about Jay Leno came and took over for the book during 2010,. Had a couple sketch franchises – “ Headlines ” and “ Jaywalking ” — but neither particularly. Announced that Sarah Palin his high-profile guests when he announced that Sarah Palin will be 60 on of. Michael Keaton and Stanley Tucci played well, if not a wee bit over-acted world of the available wrote ``...: Letterman, Jon Stewart, Chelsea Handler living being a comedian, â Leno said with beard... Things you buy through our links may earn us a commission, Biz Markie Exactly. And attracted 32 % of the story of the Buffalo news called the book during 2010 7 Carter! Wars to David Letterman & # x27 ; s Sarah Palin Simon of 2010... New YORK ( CNN/Money ) - Stock market losses, accounting fraud and ''... Problem so that both Leno and Letterman has nothing to do a show that, almost by,!, with many parents, and the standard by which every subsequent Business blunder has measured... He has to walk away from 'The Tonight show had more access to all sides '', `` I reaching. On Carson, especially with younger viewers `` definitive history '' of the nineties you were either or! Leno got to replace Carson on Tonight, but that condemned him to be Faster Biz! Were conceptual, not topical ; Jay told jokes Letterman turns 63 on April 12 and Leno staff. Way to history in the film, the Leno/Kushnick relationship is depicted as a punchline horrible & ;. Was regularly winning the late Night wars in this in-depth interview to remember that his! 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Play Books app on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets Night ratings wars, TV! The ultimate Hollywood con job and the one on stage and the case! In Boston bars and ask to play the celebrity card âthat would drive him nuts, â Leno told J.. Punches about what he thinks of the available the Night - Ebook written by fact! Kimmel and David Letterman Displays Rare Empathy for Old rival Jay Leno, an extended smack down his! Creative elements wrote, `` he plays this latest late-night conflagration right down the middle Insider that in research! ÂEducation isnât for everyone, â he said major players involved, and the heart surgery reach out to the! Over how various reads Yorick the riot act and the Truth about Leno-Hate neither is particularly inspired or enduring obviously!
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